We are currently in Israel with a group of 152 excited pilgrims. I have written a paper on the scandal of demoninations. This blog is an introduction to that paper I wrote entitled “The ‘Myth’ of 33,000 Denominations and Swallowing the Holy Ghost Feathers and All.”
(World Christian Encyclopedia from which Protestant and other groups outside the Catholic Church are listed and numbered in excess of 33,000 denominations. In the attached article I provide links to the pages and numbers in question.)
The great number of denominations and factions has done great damage to the reputation and credibility of Christianity. Whether it is 33,000 or whatever large number, it is grossly wrong. Christians ought to fix it by rallying around the shepherd Jesus appointed on the Sea of Galilee after his resurrection (where we will be today) (Jn 21:15-17; Matt 16:18-19).
“Do you love Me? Shepherd My sheep, tend My lambs.” If there is a command that the Shepherd lead, there is an implicit command for the sheep to follow and obey.
How many denominations equals more than one. Jesus wants ONE flock (John 10:16). How many does it take to cause Jesus pain?
Sheep scatter easily, I know because I have rented flocks of sheep twice in Bethlehem. And because sheep scatter easily Jesus appointed shepherds and, through apostolic succession they are still pastoring the sheep today with a flock that is larger than all other Christian schisms, sects and factions combined. It is not by chance nor accident. It is by design.
Now, one question that comes up. Aren’t there 242 “Catholic denominations” mentioned in the Oxford Dictionary you quote? I am not sure of the actual number, but there are a good number of Catholic schisms that have broke with Rome and set up their own “popes” and continue to call themselves Catholics. So, yes, you can say there are a lot of Catholic schisms, or if you prefer, denominations, along with Orthodox, Copts and others. It is a shame on all counts.
There are also many rites loyal to Rome which some may consider different “denominations” even though in their case it would be incorrect to do so. There are groups like the Maronites, Melkites, Greek Catholics, etc. who have separate names but are all Catholic and in union with Rome.
I write this blog and article to encourage the faithful and to defend the faith of the “one holy, Catholic and apostolic Church” and those who love the faith.
“On the other side of the street, I saw church buildings: Presbyterian, Lutheran, Assemblies of God, Nazarene, Methodist, Reformed Baptist, Free Will Baptist, American Baptist, Southern Baptist, Missionary Baptist, Progressive Missionary Baptist and . . .
“We live in a consumer society and unhappily too many people choose a “church” along Main Street the same way their appetites and tastes dictate which fast food joint they go to. And just like people jump from one restaurant to another, many Christians jump from one church to another. It is often called “church hopping” from the pews, or “sheep stealing” from the pulpit.” . . .
Click here for the rest of the story 🙂
This Post Has 13 Comments
Steve, It is such a great consolation for me whenever the Catholic Church is being attacked. What a great reminder from our Lord. God bless!
The denomination issue is real, whether it is 9,000 or 33,000. There are still a lot of Protestant denominations in the world, and the number is growing daily. All one has to do to silence people like James White is to count the number of different churches in the New York City Yellow Pages, and then multiply that by Chicago, LA, San Francisco and every other large ciry in this country. Plus, James is ignoring the fact that the nondenominational churches have to be counted as denominations, too. There are thousands of them out there, and they frequently preach a different, and often false gospel. The pretrib Rapture, once saved, alwaysw saved, faith alone, you name it. All they share is Christ, and He is often different, as well. James White is wrong, but he is so full of hate and smugness that you cannot tell him that. James White is infallible. His too many followers take every word he says or writes as gospel, but I have to ask: Would Jesus be so full of hatred? Would Jesus spend all his time bashing the beliefs of others, or preaching the Gospel to them? Nondenominationalism is a denomination, too, James, and they have to be counted along with the bigger ones. Jesus started one church, not thousands, and Baptists are probably the most divided of all. Give ’em heck, Steve! You are right.
Steve Ray,
Your link to the World Christian Encyclopedia is incomplete. You have failed to link to the denominational page–page 16. I’m sure it is just an honest oversight. Will you be changing your link to include that page?
Everything James White does is a smokescreen to cover up for the unbiblical doctrine of Sola Scriptura, he goes on the attack, to divert attention from this error. He knows the more the focus is on sola scriptura, the more all his arguments will fall like a pack of cards.
Its pointless arguing with him, only prayer can help him.
So, after all that, did you or did you not exaggerate the number of Protestant denominations? If so, why? If not, why the bogus number, given that you own the source encyclopedia?
Steve Ray here: You judge Scott. I posted below the conclusion of the Encyclopedia's Chart of Organized Christianity on page 16-18. It gives these figures:
I did not copy page 16 because it does not stop at page 16 but carries on to page 18. These pages substantiate my numbers.
This list from pages 16-18 consists of a list of "Organized Christianity: global membership ranked in 6 major ecclesiastico-cultural megablocs and 300 major traditions AD 1970-2025." These columns, according to the Encyclopedia on page 16 are "Total Distinct denominations, significant and less significant (or relatively insignificant) the latter being smaller bodies too small to each be enumerated with its own single line in Tables 2; for the years 1970, 1990, 1995, 2000, and 2025 assuming current trends continue.
The Encylopedia concludes the list on page 18:
The bottom line of the chart, reading from left to right:
WORLD TOTALS:
Congregations (1995): 3,157,000
Adults (1995): 1,069,931,000
Affiliated (1970): 1,130,106,000
Affiliated (1995): 1,769,920,000
Denominations Total:
1970: 16,075;
1995: 33,090;
2000: 33,909;
2025: 62,262 (projected if trends continue).
The Catholic "denominations" in this list include all those rites that have distinct names in different countries but are "Catholic" and in union with the Pope.
Hope that helps.
A point could be made (and has been) that those Rites should not be counted as denominations, by virtue of their union with the Pope. So you still have One Catholic Church. Whereas, the various(for example) Baptist splinter groups have no unifying leader, so that each ones authority is the whomever the “pastor” happens to be at the time, and also believing differenct things about different aspects of great theological import.
Here is a link from another site quoting thw World Christian Encyclopedia. It lists the number of groups as 34,000.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/worldrel.htm
According to David Barrett et al, editors of the “World Christian Encyclopedia: A comparative survey of churches and religions – AD 30 to 2200,” there are 19 major world religions which are subdivided into a total of 270 large religious groups, and many smaller ones. 34,000 separate Christian groups have been identified in the world. “Over half of them are independent churches that are not interested in linking with the big denominations.”
Yeah, it definitely is irrelevant how many thousands of denominations there are. The simple fact, as Mr. Ray correctly points out, is that schisms are tearing apart the Body of Christ–which should be one. I’m not sure why White would find any comfort in the figure of 9000 instead of 33,000. It’s sort of like saying when my house blew up, my son was only blasted into 10 pieces, not 100! Does that make him any less blasted??
One problem with the “Too Many Denominations” argument is that modern Evangelicals will actually agree with you and reply:
(1) Different people have different worship styles. It’s a good thing we should celebrate this diversity.
(2) It doesn’t matter what you believe as long as you love Jesus…theological speculations that divide denominations don’t get you into heaven. We need to focus on the essentials and not worry about non-essentials.
And even among mainline Protestants, it’s quite common for a Christian to go from a Baptist Church to a Methodist Church to an Anglican Church to a Pentacostal Church without changing one’s theology. Church “features” like bible studies, child care, music, likability of the preacher, good community life, and children’s programs are more important than theology. So implicitly the average modern Protestant just yawns at the “Too Many Denominations” argument.
Mr. Ray, I had a friend who left the Catholic Church to a nondenominational Christian one. I align myself with the Catholic church, especially in the Sacrament of the Eucharist, but out of curiosity, and after my friend’s repeated petitions, I agreed to join him one Sunday for worship at the church he attended after going to Catholic mass earlier that Sunday morning. It was the first time I ever attended a non-Catholic service.
After attending, I still remained firmly Catholic, never went back to that Christian service, but I saw why my friend was so attracted. Those folks in that Church were very friendly; they immediately recognized I was new, gave a very warm greeting and requested my mailing address. A few days later, I received a letter from their pastor indicating how grateful he was to have me there, and looked forward to seeing me in the future. It seems like the Catholic Churches around my neighborhood, someone new could attend mass, not receive a greeting, and no one would know they were ever there.
I study my faith regularly, am reading your book, “St. Peter & the Primacy of Rome”, frequent your blog & study other Catholic apologists regularly so that my family will always remain in the faith, but it seems like many Catholic churches could use some of the friendliness & joyful appeal that attracts Catholics who aren’t so versed in their faith. What do you think?
STEVE RAY HERE: Edward, you are correct about their friendliness and welcoming, though you visited one where they practice that. Not all do. Many of them have a “marketing mentality” that if they are welcoming and “love, love, love you” that they can grow the church. Coming from that background I can tell you that the Evangelicals mean to do good and to save souls, but they often do so through a mindset of marketing and entertainment.
My son moved and went to two different Catholic Churches for Mass in his neighborhood. One was not friendly and he said he and his family felt invisible. The second church greeted them with open arms, families welcomed them and the elderly gentleman sitting behind them said after Mass, “What a beautiful family – here is $20 to take them out for donuts after Mass.” My daughter went to a new Catholic Church after moving and was very welcomed, almost too much.
So, it often depends on where you go. But the fact is, even if the Mormons or Jehovahs Witnesses are welcoming it certainly says nothing about their truth or being the right faith.
God bless you Edward. Work to make your parish a welcoming place and thanks for writing.
I had a friend who after attending nondenominational Bible study ends up attacking the Catholic Church. Her brother was about to be ordained a priest! That’s the reality with lay people…lack of Bible study in the parish has affected our young friends. I tried to show her the Catholic side’s argument but she wouldn’t listen because now she has the Bible she said. Any advice will be greatly appreciated.
STEVE RAY HERE:
Benjamin:
Thanks for your Comment on my blog. Here is an article that I wrote that may help you entitled Six Rules for Dealing with Non-Catholic Family and Friends.
http://www.catholic.com/magazine/articles/six-rules-for-dealing-with-non-catholic-family-and-friends
Steve Ray
CatholicConvert.com
Follow Steve @Twitter.com/JerusalemJones
Thanks a lot Steve. I’m also reading your article “nondenominational Bible Study” and try to use that also. God bless you and your family.
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