I posted this for the listeners of Catholic Answers Live on Wednesday evening, March 21. I will post the audio link as soon as it is available and a list of all the questions we answered.
It seems that God is kind of predictable in a way 🙂 since He always starts new things in the same way — with “water and the Spirit“. Consider the following:
1) The first creation came from the earth which was covered with WATER and the SPIRIT hovered over the waters and from the water emerged land and man and God’s first creation (Gen 1:1-2).
4) Ezekiel then describes what the New Covenant will look like and he said we will be sprinkled with clean WATER and his SPIRIT will be placed in us (Ez 36:25). Born again, I suspect.
5) Then Jesus, right before saying you must be born of “water and the Spirit” had just gone down into the WATER of the Jordan and the SPIRIT came down and landed on his head. Again, water and the Spirit (Mt 3:16; Jn 1:29).
6) Jesus teaches Nicodemus that he must be born again, or from above which is accomplished through “WATER and the SPIRIT.“
8) At the first Holy Ghost Gospel Revival meeting 🙂 Peter stood up at Pentecost and said, “Repent, and be baptized (WATER) every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy SPIRIT“ (Acts 2:38).
9) Peter also says “Baptism now saves you“ (1 Pet 3:21), and Paul is told “Rise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on his name” (Acts 22:16), and Paul writes that we are saved “by the washing of regeneration (WATER) and renewal in the Holy SPIRIT“ (Titus 3:5).
Other verses you should know — click here!
For my article on Infant Baptism, click here
My book Crossing the Tiber has over 50 pages on Baptism from the Bible and the Church Fathers.
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(Picture to right is the place in the Jordan River where Jesus was baptized. Click for larger image.)
St. Augustine said, “Who is so wicked as to want to exclude infants from the kingdom of heaven by prohibiting their being baptized and born again in Christ?”
When someone asks me “Have you been born again?“ I simply answer “Absolutely, but I’ve been born again the Bible Way!“
This Post Has 45 Comments
Great entry. 🙂
i heard this discussion on the radio. i was raised catholic, but married a divorced man and now attend a non-denominational church. Here is my question–john the baptist and jesus all did full submersion baptism. how can/does the Catholic church justify infant sprinkling ? 1. the infant is not old enough to make the choice on their own and 2. the baptism is not submersion–like john the baptist and Jesus.
STEVE RAY HERE:
Can you please provide a chapter and verse in the Bible that explicitly states that John the Baptist did “full emersion” baptism? And by the way, Jesus did not do any baptisms–at least that recorded in Scripture. The fact that you “read into” the Bible full emersion is because your Baptist tradition invented by men tell you that is what it means but in fact the Bible does not teach nor insist on full emersion.
Just because it says he went down into the water does not mean he went over his head. The Jordan River is not even deep enough to go over your head standing up. My children would often “go down into the water” at a beach but never go deeper than their knees.
I would suggest you read my article on Infant Baptism here.
Maybe I don’t understand an answer you gave to Michelle on 10/26. She asked about John the Baptist and Jesus doing full emersion baptism. Part of your answer was that Jesus never did any baptisms. Yet in paragraph 7 of “Are You Born Again” you state,” He (Jesus) went down and baptized people in the Jordan with his disciples” (Jn 4:1-2). I read these verses in Chapter 4 and verse 2 states *(although Jesus himself was not baptizing, just his disciples). So I see Jesus didn’t baptize, but I don’t understand your reply in paragraph 7 of your article. If you have time can you clear up this for me. Thank you for your help.
STEVE RAY HERE:
My point in paragraph 7 was not WHO specifically was baptizing but that “bookending” Jesus’ words “Unless one is born of water and Spirit” baptisms were taking place. Baptism is the context for the words “water and Spirit.” My point was not to say whether Jesus or his disciples were baptizing but that the context is one of baptism. John says Jesus baptized the people, but not him, it was actually his disciples who did the baptizing. This is beautifully stated because Jesus is baptizing the people through his mediating action of his disciples, much like it is Jesus acting in the Sacraments today through his servants the priests and deacons.
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Michelle, to answer your 1st point, please tell me where in the Bible it says that people who are to be baptized MUST freely choose it on their own? The Bible says that whole households were baptized. Do you assume that it only meant the adults in the household? If so, from where you do make that assumption (besides Baptist traditional interpretation)? Jewish households were typically large and held several generations at the same time. Since baptism replaced circumcision (which was done on the 8th day of life) as the ‘sign’ and binding mechanism of the Covenant, it is readily understood that and believable (even in a vacuum) that the Jews-to-Christian converts would understand the need to bind their children (even infants) into the new Covenant, especially when they heard Jesus’ saying that only those born of water and spirit (baptism) can enter into the Kingdom of God’. That is why for 2000 years now, us good and faithful Catholics have baptized our infants, so they become adopted Sons and Daughters of the most-high God through his Son Jesus and are not precluded from entrance into Heaven, even should they die before the age of assent.
Peace,
Tom
dear Steve,i am malbert from goa can you please tell me how can u say that the bible belongs to us…where it is given in the bible…thanks.
It was Mary’s \yes\ that allow Jesus to be born. It was our parents \yes\ to allow us to be born. We didn’t \choose\ to be born a first time, but our parents knew it was God’s will. The same is with beimg born a second time. Our parents can say \yes\ again, for their children to be \born again\.
sir, this is a very clear explanation on being born again 🙂
in my country, the philippines, there are hundreds of Born Again sects teaching people to be Born Again and to get out from the Catholic Church because they say it is the Whore of Babylon
although I believe that there is nothing wrong in teaching people to become a better person in Christ, they are still misleading thousands of souls by saying that faith alone will save them.
with your permission, I would like to borrow your explanation next time I talk with a Born Again
thank you in advance!
Baptism didn’t replace circumsision otherwise the apostle Paul and all the other Jews wouldn’t have needed to be baptised.
STEVE RAY: Circumcision was the rite of initiation into the Old Covenant; Baptism the rite into the New. The Old replaced the New; Baptism replaced circumcision. Read your Bible mire carefully.
How do you explain the thief on the cross. No water Baptism There. Just a Spiritual Baptism.
Hi michelle,
i heard this discussion on the radio. i was raised catholic, but married a divorced man and now attend a non-denominational church. Here is my question–john the baptist and jesus all did full submersion baptism.
There is an assumption here. The assumption being that they ONLY did full submersion Baptism.
how can/does the Catholic church justify infant sprinkling ?
By the authority given to the Church by Jesus Christ (Matt 16:18-19; Matt 28:19-20; John 20:21-23)
1. the infant is not old enough to make the choice on their own
In the Gospels, the children which Jesus saved were too young to seek His aid on their own. Their parents needed to do it for them. And Jesus always healed them on behalf of their parents. (Matthew 15:28; John 4:50).
Why then, would Jesus refuse to save the little children in Baptism? (Matthew 19:14)
and 2. the baptism is not submersion–like john the baptist and Jesus.
According to the Tradition of the Catholic Church, all three types of Baptism are permitted.
If you want to interpret the requirement of Baptism according to the letter, then you must be Baptized in the Jordan River. There is no other river mentioned where anyone else was Baptized.
By the way, full submersion is not mentioned either. That is a Protestant reading into Scripture.
Sincerely,
De Maria
Douglass October 27, 2008 at 11:03 PM
Maybe I don’t understand an answer you gave to Michelle on 10/26. She asked about John the Baptist and Jesus doing full emersion baptism. Part of your answer was that Jesus never did any baptisms. Yet in paragraph 7 of “Are You Born Again” you state,” He (Jesus) went down and baptized people in the Jordan with his disciples” (Jn 4:1-2). I read these verses in Chapter 4 and verse 2 states *(although Jesus himself was not baptizing, just his disciples). So I see Jesus didn’t baptize, but I don’t understand your reply in paragraph 7 of your article. If you have time can you clear up this for me. Thank you for your help.
Hi, I’m not responding to your question to Steve. I’m giving my opinion in the meaning of the seemingly contradictory Scripture verses. First one verse says that Jesus baptized. Then another says that only His disciples baptized.
I think though, that Jesus had to get the ball rolling, so to speak. Who baptized the Apostles? True, some of them were baptized by St. John. But St. John’s baptism did not give the Holy Spirit. Therefore, Jesus had to re-baptize those Apostles. And baptize the rest. And then, presumably, delegated the duty of baptizing the masses to them.
That is my speculative explanation intended to explain the seeming contradiction in those two verses.
malbert February 18, 2011 at 6:26 AM
dear Steve,i am malbert from goa can you please tell me how can u say that the bible belongs to us…where it is given in the bible…thanks.
I’m not sure if these will answer your question:
2 Pet 1:
16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty. 17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. 18 And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount. 19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
2 Corinthians 3:6
Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
Kevin September 17, 2011 at 11:36 AM
It was Mary’s \yes\ that allow Jesus to be born. It was our parents \yes\ to allow us to be born. We didn’t \choose\ to be born a first time, but our parents knew it was God’s will. The same is with beimg born a second time. Our parents can say \yes\ again, for their children to be \born again\.
What a beautiful answer. I hope I remember it next time someone asks the question.
Sincerely,
De Maria
It was Mary’s \yes\ that allow Jesus to be born
It was God’s will for Mary to bear Jesus, not hers. Mary said to the angel – Thy will be done. Mankind “is spirtually” dead in sin after the fall of Adam and Eve and is unable to come to God in repentance and faith both of which God grants it. Salvation is of the Lord. Repentance and faith to believe comes from the Lord. Arminianists wrong believe man has a “free will” to make decisions to accept or reject. The scriptures do not support such view.
If man has no free will, why did God give Moses the Ten Commandments and have him tell the people to obey them? If man has no free will, then he has no ability to obey or disobey, no ability to sin or avoid sin. Therefore, Adam and Eve could not have sinned.
jason fernandes March 5, 2013 at 11:32 PM
It was God’s will for Mary to bear Jesus, not hers. Mary said to the angel – Thy will be done.
Mary cooperated with God’s will. If Mary had not done so, Jesus would not have taken flesh and become man. And man would not be saved.
Mankind “is spirtually” dead in sin after the fall of Adam and Eve and is unable to come to God in repentance and faith both of which God grants it.
True. But in order to be saved, man must make the conscious decision to accept God’s will:
Deuteronomy 30:19
I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
Romans 6:16
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Salvation is of the Lord.
Only to those who obey:
Hebrews 5:9
And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
Repentance and faith to believe comes from the Lord.
True. They are gifts of God that must be accepted and exercised.
James 2:20
But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Arminianists wrong believe man has a “free will” to make decisions to accept or reject. The scriptures do not support such view.
You are wrong. Scripture teaches that man must cooperate with God or be lost.
Ezekiel 18:23-28
King James Version (KJV)
23 Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord God: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?
24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.
25 Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israel; Is not my way equal? are not your ways unequal?
26 When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.
27 Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive.
28 Because he considereth, and turneth away from all his transgressions that he hath committed, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
Bill912 March 6, 2013 at 5:02 PM
If man has no free will, why did God give Moses the Ten Commandments and have him tell the people to obey them? If man has no free will, then he has no ability to obey or disobey, no ability to sin or avoid sin. Therefore, Adam and Eve could not have sinned.
Excellent point! Very well put.
There is a difference between “mans free will” and “Spiritual free will”. They both are confused to be “mans free will”. Man only possesses the former at birth. The later comes only from God when the Holy Spirit convicts, kindles, regenerates man to realize he is a lost sinner and gives him the repentance and faith to believe the gospel. Look to the scriptures of how man can be made “spiritually” made alive. See Jonah 3:1-10, Ephesians 1:13, Acts 19:4. Why do Atheists don’t believe in God? Its because they are “spiritually dead”. Why do some people reject the gospel? Because they are “spiritually dead”. See what GOD says in John 6:44, John 6:37, John 15:19, Romans 8:9.
When Mary said “Thy will be done” … whose will is she referring to? Her will or God’s will?
The Ten commandments were given to the people of Israel by God thru Moses to make them aware of God’s sovereignty and holiness. However no one can keep all commandments perfectly without tripping on at least one or more. Only Jesus was able to fulfill it perfectly.
De Maria March 6, 2013 at 9:40 PM
Mary cooperated with God’s will. If Mary had not done so, Jesus would not have taken flesh and become man. And man would not be saved.
What if God decided to bypass Mary and send Jesus directly to earth. Could not Jesus appear directly in the flesh. Recall after the Resurrection, Jesus appeared in his full body form. Can you question what God can do? How did God form Adam and Eve? Thru’ Mary?
One more try: If man has no free will, he has no ability to obey or disobey. He is merely an automaton who does what he is programmed to do. Therefore, it would have been unnecessary for God to give us the Ten Commandments, and it would have been impossible for Adam and Eve to have sinned. If Mary did not freely consent to the overshadowing of the Holy Spirit, then the Holy Spirit forced himself on Mary without her consent. Isn’t there a word for that?
But then, if Jason is right, he had no choice in posting what he did, and I had no choice posting what I did.
Even better: It would have been pointless for God to give us the Ten Commandment, if man has no free will, and is therefore incapable of obeying or disobeying.
When God created Adam/Eve, they were blessed with a “free will” that became part and parcel of their make-up. In addition, They were also blessed with “Gods spiritual will” or simply Gods spirit lived inside them. Being made initially sinless and perfect, their in-dwelling Spirit of God enabled them to have intimate relationship with God. The Book of Genesis records that God always came to see Adam/Eve in the garden and to have intimate fellowship with them. That changed when Adam/Eve committed the sin of disobedience and death was the result. Romans 5:12 states death was the result of sin of one man (Adam) passed onto everyone. But did they physically die? No! They spiritually died. God’s indwelling Spirit left them because of that sin of disobedience. Thus we are all born of sin right from the time of conception in our mother’ womb – Psalm 51:5. The sin nature now is in everyone. We are born without God’s Spirit thus making us enemies of God. Without the Spirit of God in-dwelling in us, we are in constant rebellion with God. We are born with that inherited sin nature of Adam, born as “the natural man” of and belonging to the world. 1 Corinthians 2:14 talks about the natural man (the one who does not possess the Spirit of God) “cannot” receive the things of the Spirit of God – for it is foolishness to him – why?? because it says they are “spiritually” discerned. Only coming to Christ can make you “Spiritually” alive. See 1 Corinthians 15:45, Ephesians 2:1-5. As far as the Ten Commandments are concerned – it is the same as the post I wrote on March 8, 2013 at 3:31 AM above.
So, first, it is “…wrong (to) believe man has a ‘free will’ to make decisions to accept or reject”, but, now, man does have a free will. Perhaps you area bit confused as to what you actually believe.
You should understand the interpretation of John 6:44, John 6:37, 1 Corinthians 2:14, Ephesians 2:1. Understand what Jesus told Nicodemus in John 3. Understand what it means by the terms Physical and Spiritual realms. A man is “Spiritually” dead in sin i.e. without Gods Spirit and therefore has a carnal mind which is enmity against God- see Romans 8:7.
In so many evangelical Protestant churches also preach a “false method of Salvation” – a prayer that one says – “knowing i am a sinner, i now ‘accept’ Jesus to come into my heart”. This type of prayer is showing man’s decision to accept Christ. Does the scriptures say that we can merit salvation by our decision to accept Christ?
No response directed toward the above comment, but more evidence of confusion.
jason fernandes March 8, 2013 at 2:52 AM
His Jason,
You said:
There is a difference between “mans free will” and “Spiritual free will”.
True. But now you’ve admitted that man has free will. Whether it is before or after regeneration, it is still free will. And therefore you have proved yourself wrong.
There’s no need for anything else to be said. You have shot yourself in the foot, so to speak.
Sincerely,
De Maria
Hi De Maria ..
How Are We Free?
Let me say, however, that in one sense we all have free will or free choice. What I mean by that is we all do whatever we want to do. We are free agents in this sense. When it comes to the everyday normal choices we make, we freely make those choices to do what we want to do. Although we are free beings and we freely choose to do what we want to do, we are not free spiritual beings. This is a very important distinction. When it comes to making decisions about God and the things of the Spirit, the unsaved do not have the free will spiritual ability to make those decisions. We are dead spiritually, as mentioned previously, which means we are dead or incapable of making free decisions of any spiritual good toward our Creator or our salvation. That ability has been totally corrupted by our sin nature.
Sin destroyed our freedom of will to do right, and now we serve the lusts of our sinful flesh. At the fall of man, what was it that fell? It was the free will ability to equally choose good or evil with a view to pleasing God. Now we are left with an overwhelming predisposition and desire by our wills to do evil and sin against our Creator.
So here is the truth of Scripture. Since the fall of man, there is no such thing as a free will spiritual ability or power to equally choose good or evil. Man’s inclination is to choose evil. Read again Paul’s comments in Rom. 7:14-25. Man’s will is corrupted and in slavery to sin (John 8:34). The unsaved individual does not understand the things of God and will not seek God with his spiritually dead will. The Scriptures are clear on this point. (Rom. 3:11-12).
So there is no free will, but there is free will, but there really isn’t free will, but there is kinda free will…
I think I need some Dramamine.
Hi Jason,
I seem to be bumping into you in several places. You’re simply copying your same objection, so I’ll copy my same response to that objection.
No, you’re wrong. Man’s nature is fallen. But it is not Total Depravity.
Jesus said of the little children:
Matthew 19:14
But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.
Souls in heaven are not Totally Depraved. They are not depraved at all. They are souls of men made perfect:
Hebrews 12:22-24
King James Version (KJV)
22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
If unregenerate man were unable to choose to do good, Enoch would not have pleased God, Noah would not have been called righteous, Melchizedek would not have been called the Priest of God most high, Abraham would not have been forensically approved, etc. etc. Read Heb 11 and see the many, unregenerate Jews who pleased God by their faith and actions.
Sincerely,
De Maria
jason fernamdes March 11, 2013 at 2:17 PM
You should understand the interpretation of John 6:44, John 6:37, 1 Corinthians 2:14, Ephesians 2:1.
You mean, YOUR interpretation of John 6:44 etc.
We are not followers of Jason. We are followers of Christ through the Teaching of the Catholic Church. All whom we follow are Catholics.
Understand what Jesus told Nicodemus in John 3.
We understand perfectly. One must be born again of water and spirit. One must be Baptized.
Mark 16:16
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Understand what it means by the terms Physical and Spiritual realms. A man is “Spiritually” dead in sin i.e. without Gods Spirit and therefore has a carnal mind which is enmity against God- see Romans 8:7.
Read Romans 8, carefully. It is telling you that you have a choice to follow the flesh or follow the Spirit.
It is the same choice which God the Father gave the Israelites:
Deuteronomy 30:19
I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
Follow the flesh and die.
Follow the Spirit and live:
Rom 8:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
In so many evangelical Protestant churches also preach a “false method of Salvation” – a prayer that one says – “knowing i am a sinner, i now ‘accept’ Jesus to come into my heart”. This type of prayer is showing man’s decision to accept Christ. Does the scriptures say that we can merit salvation by our decision to accept Christ?
Yes. As long as that decision includes a decision to obey Christ.
Hebrews 5:9
And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
Romans 6:13
Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
Yield yourselves unto God:
Romans 6:16
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Unless you do so, you can not be saved. God saves the righteous, who choose to do righteousness:
Acts 10:33-35
King James Version (KJV)
33 Immediately therefore I sent to thee; and thou hast well done that thou art come. Now therefore are we all here present before God, to hear all things that are commanded thee of God.
34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
Sincerely,
De Maria
So tell me one thing.. Being Baptized as an infant..how does a baby acknowledge his/ her sins? To be saved One must acknowledge their sin and be aware that no amount of good deeds can cleanse us and make us spotless in front of God. And only once you acknowledge your sins and accept Jesus as your personal savior you are ‘ saved’. That word is so powerful and being baptized as a baby honestly doesn’t save you. Don’t judge me but I was a catholic and now converted into a born again believer. Infant baptism contradicts the bible. Can you be baptized as a baby just for names sake and later when you grow up do all the filthy things and not know Christ or become aware of your sin? And simply defend yourself by saying I was baptized when I was a baby hence I am a so called “Christian” ? I am not here to judge but God brought me to light when I truly sought him and converting from a catholic background must mean something 🙂 I pray that God opens each and everyone of your eyes and lead you to the truth. In Jesus name.
STEVE RAY HERE:
Nisha
Thanks for writing and for your concern. I can see you try to think carefully about these things. However, I used to be a Baptist and I recognize in your post what you’re saying is not from the Bible alone, but is full of fundamentalist tradition. I could respond sentence-by-sentence to what you wrote and prove to you over and over again that your words and phrases and ideas come from Baptist tradition and not from the Bible alone.
Also you should realize that you completely misunderstand and misrepresent what the Catholic Church actually teaches.
Here is a link to my article on infant baptism. I think you’ll find it interesting. I hope we can discuss this more in the future. By the way, it is a shame you left the Catholic Church before you truly understood what she teaches.
https://www.catholicconvert.com/documents/Infant+Baptism2.doc
Isn’t it odd that if the Baptists and evangelicals are correct that their “born again experience” is the true and ONLY means of salvation, the term “born again” is only mentioned three times in the King James Bible? If “making a decision for Christ” is the only means of salvation, why doesn’t God mention it more often in his Word? Why only THREE times? Isn’t that REALLY, REALLY odd?
Why is it that the Apostle Paul, the author of much of the New Testament, NEVER uses this term? Why is this term never used in the Book of Acts to describe the many mentioned Christian conversions? Why is this term only used by Jesus in a late night conversation with Nicodemus, and by Peter once in just one letter to Christians in Asia Minor?
If you attend a Baptist/evangelical worship service what will you hear? You will hear this: “You must be born again: you must make a decision for Christ. You must ask Jesus into your heart. You must pray to God and ask him to forgive you of your sins, come into your heart, and be your Lord and Savior (the Sinner’s Prayer). You must be an older child or adult who has the mental capacity to make a decision to believe, to make a decision to repent, and to make a decision to ask Jesus into your heart.”
It is very strange, however, that other than “you must be born again” none of this terminology is anywhere to be found in the Bible! Why do Baptists and evangelicals use this non-biblical terminology when discussing salvation?
Maybe…making a “decision” for Christ is NOT how God saves sinners!
Gary
Luther, Baptists, and Evangelicals
Two things I heard that really helped me understand that the Catholic position on Predestination and Free Will is true:
1) Are we made in the image and likeness of God? Yes
2) Does God have free will? Yes
3) Therefore we have free will.
And the other is by Dr. Peter Kreeft:
We were predestined to have free will. We cannot choose to not have free will. Therefore God is still all sovereign and we still have free will.
Just a couple thoughts.
God Bless,
Poor Knight for Christ and His Church
Nisha, I believe that Christ led you here in order to open YOUR eyes to the truth. God bless. And sending prayers and good thoughts your way. I hope you will allow Him to lead you back into His church.
Nisha June 6, 2013 at 5:44 AM
So tell me one thing.. Being Baptized as an infant..how does a baby acknowledge his/ her sins? To be saved One must acknowledge their sin and be aware that no amount of good deeds can cleanse us and make us spotless in front of God.
Actually, no. The miracles of Jesus show that Jesus saved many, based not upon their own faith, but upon the faith of their parents. For instance, this child was dead. Being dead, this child could not choose to seek Christ. Yet, Jesus saved this child, based upon the faith of the parents:
Mark 5:40 And they laughed him to scorn. But when he had put them all out, he taketh the father and the mother of the damsel, and them that were with him, and entereth in where the damsel was lying. 41 And he took the damsel by the hand, and said unto her, Talitha cumi; which is, being interpreted, Damsel, I say unto thee, arise. 42 And straightway the damsel arose, and walked; for she was of the age of twelve years. And they were astonished with a great astonishment.
That, is the essence of infant Baptism. We, the parents, realize that our children are born in Original Sin and must be freed from the power of death. Therefore, we bring our children to Christ and beg Him to grant them eternal life, in Baptism.
And only once you acknowledge your sins and accept Jesus as your personal savior you are ‘ saved’. That word is so powerful and being baptized as a baby honestly doesn’t save you.
Not, if you don’t have faith. Jesus made that clear:
Matthew 15:28 Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.
Don’t judge me but I was a catholic and now converted into a born again believer. Infant baptism contradicts the bible. Can you be baptized as a baby just for names sake and later when you grow up do all the filthy things and not know Christ or become aware of your sin? And simply defend yourself by saying I was baptized when I was a baby hence I am a so called “Christian” ?
It happens frequently. Jesus Christ did not preach OSAS. It doesn’t matter if they were baptized as children or as adults. Believers can fall from grace:
Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
I am not here to judge but God brought me to light when I truly sought him and converting from a catholic background must mean something 🙂 I pray that God opens each and everyone of your eyes and lead you to the truth. In Jesus name.
It wasn’t God who led you out of the Catholic Church. That was Satan. I pray that you turn to Christ and embrace the Catholic Church which He established to wash you in His grace.
Sincerely,
De Maria
AWESOME! Even more ammunition for evangelizing and spreading the truth of the Catholic Church!
Thanks Mr. Ray!
you must believe that you are a sinner to be born again
STEVE RAY HERE: Just read Jon 3 again and don’t see that specifically stated. An infant is born again Through water baptism and I don’t think the baby is quite able to acknowledge send yet.
Thank you Mr Ray – Your article obviously covers the Catholic response to the Born Again challenge. But it triggered a memory.
What bothers me about the Born Again challengers is that they have no boundaries on when and where they pose this challenge. I have rarely seen my father so angry (other than when I was being stupid growing up of course) as he was when my mother was in a local Hospice house approaching death. The facility has very nice non-institutional layout with individual rooms for each person but also very nice common spaces designed to allow families to gather in small groups hen not in their loved ones room. Sure enough during a time when we were out of Mom's room in one of the gathering areas we were approached by someone posing the Born Again challenge. My father made it very clear that it was not the time or place even though the Born Again person thought hospice was exactly the most appropriate time and place for such questions. Fortunately my father maintained enough composure so as not to disturb the facility but his reaction scared the shit out of that Born Again promoter. I had been on the receiving end of dad's controlled fury back in my younger days and I thought for sure we going to see that person vaporized before our very eyes. Even though we maintained a 24 hour vigil we never saw that person again. I suspect that someone working at the facility had made an arrangement with the Born Again promoter to come in and save folks before it was too late. I cannot prove it but in retrospect I think this person had been seen coming out of patients rooms. Not every family was willing or able to maintain a 24 hour vigil. God must have been watching over Dad and the Born Again agitator. If that person had entered Moms room at any point esp if Dad had been there I hate to think what would have happened. It is a stressful time so normal restraints can't be relied upon.
I was approached from behind at a gas station in a strange town many years ago. It startled me then but can you imagine being surprised in today's environment.
Oh well thank you again for reinforcing the faith in those of us that need it during these times.
STEVE RAY HERE: Thanks for the great story CJ! I agree.
Am sorry if I maybe off topic but how do I respond to someone who asks me if I confessed Christ as my personal Lord and saviour? Have we catholics done that at one point in our lives?
STEVE RAY HERE: Catholics and protestants use different words and phrases and this phrase about “accepting Jesus as our personal Lord and Savior” is not found anywhere in the Bible. You cannot find the word “personal” anywhere in the New Testament. It is protestant tradition.
However, in Catholic terms we have faith in Jesus Christ as our savior and we acknowledge him as our Lord. We do this through faith and baptism. We have confess our sins and asked him to save us. That’s part of what the whole baptism service is about but it’s also something we say every time we go to mass.
Plus, you receive Christ in a very special way every time you go to Mass and you take the Eucharist which is the real body and blood of Christ. The protestant does not believe this nor does he have this great gift. He says it’s just crackers and grape juice. But Jesus said “this is my body” and “you must eat my Flesh and drink my Blood.” Every time you do this you are receiving Christ in a very special way.
So, bottom line is that we DO declare Jesus as our Lord and Savior. Not just once but over and over again.
Thank you so much Sir
Thank you for explaining Old Testament typology so well. I also like that quote from St. Augustine. Does Augustine say anything else in regards to infant baptism?
STEVE RAY HERE: Grady, thanks so much.
Here are a few quotes:
“Who is so impious as to wish to exclude infants from the kingdom of heaven by forbidding them to be baptized and born again in Christ?”149
“This [infant baptism] the Church always had, always held; this she received from the faith of our ancestors; this she perseveringly guards even to the end.”
“ ‘Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.’ Why does He not say, Ye are clean through the baptism wherewith ye have been washed, but ‘through the word which I have spoken unto you,’ save only that in the water also it is the word that cleanseth? Take away the word, and the water is neither more or less than water. The word is added to the element [of water], and there results the Sacrament.… And whence has the water so great an efficacy, as in touching the body to cleanse the soul, save by the operation of the word; and that not because it is uttered, but because it is believed?… ‘This is the word of faith which we preach,’ whereby baptism, doubtless, is also consecrated, in order to its possession of the power to cleanse.”151
“Our Lord Jesus Christ showed the way, as you have heard, brethren, lest any man, arrogating to himself that he has abundance of some particular grace, should disdain to be baptized with the baptism of the Lord. For whatever the p 174 catechumen’s proficiency, he still carries the load of his iniquity: it is not forgiven him until he shall have come to baptism. Just as the people of Israel were not rid of the Egyptians until they had come to the Red Sea, so no man is rid of the pressure of sins until he has come to the font of baptism.”
“What the universal Church holds, not as instituted by councils but as something always held, is most correctly believed to have been handed down by apostolic authority. Since others respond for children, so that the celebration of the sacrament may be complete for them, it is certainly availing to them for their consecration, because they themselves are not able to respond.”
AUGUSTINE ON BAPTISM, AGAINST THE DONATISTS (4.24.31)
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